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  • Renegade vs Nightmare price?

    Any chance you could explain why the Nightmare costs less than the Renegade? They have the same stats except that the Nightmare has longer range, does more damage, and is slightly less concealable. It seems the better gun overall so I'm not sure why anyone would ever pick the Renegade.

    Actually, looking at the Rapture, it begs the same question. It has the same stats as the Nightmare except higher damage, more AP, and a smaller clip size. It's only $25 more than the Nightmare but still much cheaper than the Renegade.

    Am I missing something or is this just something that could use a balance pass?

  • #2
    Corollary to that. Are we not supposed to buy guns from the core book? The Nightmare and the AK47 have pretty much identical stats but the Nightmare costs $1900 and the AK47 costs $450. I couldn't find anything saying we can't but that seems like a huge discrepancy.

    Comment


    • ValhallaGH
      ValhallaGH commented
      Editing a comment
      Characters can get core rules weapons, but using an AK47 in 2095 is like using a Winchester rifle in 2021 - it works but you look like a weirdo, parts are a pain to replace, and modern ammo can be unexpectedly incompatible.
      The PR Nightmare includes tactical rails and biometric safeties. No effect on killing but a big impact on usage.

  • #3
    Originally posted by TheChemist View Post
    Am I missing something or is this just something that could use a balance pass?
    Manufacturer and branding.
    Reaper Technologies makes the hottest, trendiest, most critically acclaimed guns. Guns that cost more and have a bunch of bells and whistles. The Renegade is a good example: designed for close combat (can be used to shoot adjacent foes), a reduced recoil penalty for automatic fire, chambered in light and common 5.56mm, and a compact design that makes it more comfortable to carry (and possible to conceal beneath a long coat). It has a bunch of features that are easy to sell to an executive board buying in bulk for their corporate security forces, but are less attractive to self-funded independent agents.
    Wasteland Traders makes simplistic, rugged, reliable weapons. Reasonably effective, sturdy, reliable. That's their brand and folks that have to operate without support prefer that. The PR Nightmare (Public Relations Nightmare; yes, the name is an in-universe joke) is basically a modernized AK.
    Act of God Armaments makes powerful guns. They incorporate minimal features, but their designs hit harder (+1 damage, +1 AP compared to similar models from other ).

    These weapons are supposed to tell a story about the companies that make them, without spending pages explicitly telling a story about the companies that make them.

    Comment


    • #4
      Thanks for the reply. This has made me realize that you're not including the notes in the tables like they do in the core rulebook. Makes it a bit harder to understand the weapons at a glance. (Also, the PR Nightmare has no notes section, even in its description block. I'll throw that in the eratta forum).

      Seeing now that the Renegade has CQB and Recoil Compensation makes it much clearer as to why the price is so much more.

      Comment


      • #5
        Hiya,

        This is one of those questions/subjects I'm wary of discussing (plus I didn't write the gear chapter, so I'm not sure what the design choices were for costs). The main reason for this is I tend to go by style over substance when I play/run my games. I don't necessarily choose a weapon based on it's stats. I pick the one I think is cool (maybe because of an image) and better fits my character's play style, and what the character can afford at the time.

        This might seem counter-intuitive, especially from a design/balance standpoint, but I would also point out that, in a game world like Interface Zero (and the real world, actually) costs of a given "things" are generally what the market will bear(sp?). Maybe The Rapture and the Renegade are all the rage right now...maybe they are just better built.

        Keep in mind that branding is important. It's a common theme in the cyberpunk genre, especially when you think about street cred and characters who are trying to build a reputation. But that's all role-play. You might consider other thing like supply and demand...Maybe these weapons are just more difficult to get.

        I wouldn't look at price discrepancies solely based on which gun does more damage, has better range, etc.....but that's just me.

        As for core rules, I'm assuming you mean SWADE. You could keep the massive price discrepancy, and there would be good reasons to do so. SWADE assumes guns like the AK are priced on modern-day, real world prices.

        Interface Zero obviously doesn't. If you want to up prices for the SWADE weapons/armor, etc. Multiply their costs by 5, or maybe 10, and you should be in the ballpark.

        Or, alternately, keep the price imbalance, and just say they are OLD...really old, keep the stats, but rule they can't interface with cybertech, or other technology elements in IZ.





        Comment


        • TheChemist
          TheChemist commented
          Editing a comment
          Makes sense. Thanks.

      • #6
        [QUOTE=TheChemist;n1355]Thanks for the reply. This has made me realize that you're not including the notes in the tables like they do in the core rulebook. Makes it a bit harder to understand the weapons at a glance. (Also, the PR Nightmare has no notes section, even in its description block. I'll throw that in the eratta forum).

        Sorry about the notes section, but tables are massively hard to do once you start adding a bunch of columns.

        Comment


        • #7
          I'll just ask this here rather than starting another thread. Would it be possible to get the notes added to the tables? I realize that this would likely mean a bit of reformatting of the doc, but there seems to be a fair amount of unused space on most of the table pages, so it might be doable without too much of a headache.

          Edit: Never mind then.

          Comment


          • #8
            Sorry, but no. I understand your concerns, but what you are asking for means I have to re-do the layout of that entire chapter, and that would take a ton of time.

            Comment


            • TheChemist
              TheChemist commented
              Editing a comment
              Fair enough.
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