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  • Discussion from TAP going away UPDATE

    Hi all,

    So, I have backed the project through driveThruRPG and that kind of leaves me away from posting in the Kickstarter chat.

    Just wanted to leave here my two cents perhaps others in the same situation can continue here.
    Source: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects.../posts/2910306

    ..

    I have created several posts here for asking about how TAP works, hackers action being really FAST and asking how stealth people can go by TAP. Also asking about dead people's taps and such.

    My first reaction is GOOD about the change. I honestly did not like the feeling of everyone running around with a hackable machine on their head. I DO support though that the TAP does not go away, it could stay within the reach of the rich people or perhaps with minimal functionalities (that could be expanded with programs and VR interface or rigging modules). Also 99.6% of population with TAP is too much? but that is minimal detail.

    I like the concept of hacking getting into devices and cybernetics, hacking cameras, cyberlimbs, personal accounts to extract information and private networks makes it fun. So hacking becoming more into computer system is good for me. Hacking cybernetics seem to be gone now... so I am not sure what will be the counter effect of CYBERTECH? Strain doesn't seem to be a challenge with the edge that adds +6 strain limit.

    Greatest help for GMs for me is to help GMs make Hacking a team effort (i.e. need someone to plug off some cable, cause a distraction somewhere or help with a bridge vpn scrambler device somewhere) and avoid leaving too many uncovered topics that may raise discussions (remember not always GM has the final word and arguments are open and contradictory, rules and guidelines DO HELP).

    so, I like the TAP not being a universal thing that is hackable and directly implanted to our neurons.

    But please help us GMs with (bare my English is not native, this is a mere suggestion from my experience):
    - Not so many "up to GMs discretion rules" particularly in terms of timing it takes to do stuff (just examples or guidelines would be enough)
    - Please Don't forget about how stealth works and how private mode work - also if there's any OFF mode or AIRPLANE mode
    - You mention "FAIL" and enemy get's to roll notice. In the hacking re-write rules SUCCESS also rolls notice, otherwise that would be very powerful. What's up with that?
    - Help defining the interconnection between PAN and limb devices.
    - Define team work in terms of can a hacker use other's people in the team devices? broadcasting audio and video? connection to the VR?

    Just my two cents
    JV
    Last edited by JeansenVaars; 08-01-2020, 08:30 PM.

  • #2
    I respect your opinion, but in your post you just listed a bunch of thing that all require specific rules, which bloats the system. Savage Worlds is supposed to be simple, you know "FFF". If I've learned anything from the good people who I've talked with on these forums (including YOU) and other, countless conversations I've had in the past, is that too many rules just complicates matters in a Savage Worlds game. This isn't Shadowrun, but these rules feel like it, because I'm always getting feedback (not just from you) about holes in the system. Plugging those wholes means more rules...that makes more page count, and that affects everything about this project.

    The rules are getting simplified.

    The TAP isn't completely going away. It'll still be implanted in a character's head, but as I'm writing, there will be some significant impacts on it, so much so that in the fiction I'll be talking about millions of people dying, the corp[oration that created the TAP getting sued into oblivion, and a general attitude that the Tendril Access Processor is too dangerous to use.

    Comment


    • #3
      You said:
      - You mention "FAIL" and enemy get's to roll notice. In the hacking re-write rules SUCCESS also rolls notice, otherwise that would be very powerful. What's up with that?"

      If you fail to make a Hacking roll to manipulate the system you've hacked into. The system gets to make a Notice roll. I'm not sure what the issue is with that.


      "Please Don't forget about how stealth works and how private mode work - also if there's any OFF mode or AIRPLANE mode"

      I've said multiple times you can turn the TAP off.
      ___________________

      I'm really not going back down this rabbit hole of creating tons of rules to handle things like this.

      That's why I'm stripping the rules down. I'll discuss some common issues in the Game Master's Guide though, but I'm not bloating the rule set.

      Comment


      • #4
        That sounds good, I will make my best efforts to transmit my players that things would be more FFF and each situation will have a GM's defined scope.

        Most of the difficulties I had, do need rules, you are correct. All I wanted is to avoid me from being "arbitrary" against the players.

        Perhaps there is no need for rules but a GM section for "guidelines" into interpreting how technology works will help a LOT. For example "Technology has a stealth mode that specialist use in certain situations"... so no rules but lore and context that help argument situational modifications. So in case of large disputes, at least I can tell my players "read this part into how technology works in the world"

        I totally understand other's points of view of course the world does not revolve around me - SWADE is a fun game. But in a sense, I totally go for less TAP and more system computers.

        Comment


        • #5
          Just as a note, perhaps I feel from here and my non-native language that you are a bit defensive and (hopefully not) a bit without patience ^^.

          Please allow me to remind that INTERFACE ZERO 3.0 IS LOOKING FANTASTIC AND YOUR JOB IS AMAZING. I can tell you have huge tons of experience so totally it is your design and you will most probably are right and also a very well targeted audience.

          Keep it going - I just hope my silly requests and questions help you shape and understand how we - noob gms and players think

          Comment


          • #6
            If I seem cross with you, I'm not, really...I genuinely appreciate everything you have posted, all of your questions and concerns, and believe me when I say I've taken all of them into account. I've taken all of the discussions I';ve had concerning hacking and other subjects on these forums into account when making any change.

            Comment


            • JeansenVaars
              JeansenVaars commented
              Editing a comment
              I feel better with the clarification

          • #7
            I think a decent way of saying good bye to a majority of the TAP's and/or the users out there is that the Charon virus/AI [which if I remember from a previous supplement, a fragment of exists in Phoenix AZ, USA] sent out a massive virus again [[??]] that caused TAPs to either permanently go offline and/or bombarded the user with malware, spam, mentally damaging attacks, etc...This would result in the death of millions as well as causing those that survived the physical onslaught to go insane.

            Now the only ones who might have functional TAPs are
            1. Those whose TAPs were turned off at the time of the attack by Charon
            2. TAPs built but not deployed
            3. And some of the those that had the tightest and toughest counter-measures available.
            Why would Charon do this again after the financial attack it did years ago? Perhaps it enacted a "scorched earth policy" when the NEW United States of America fought its minions/forces when taking back Phoenix AZ, USA?

            Just a rough idea.

            Comment


            • #8
              Heh. funny you mentioned those events.....

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by gunmetaldave View Post
                Heh. funny you mentioned those events.....
                it'll be interesting how close I am when the book is ready. Lol

                Comment


                • #10
                  Hi all, could not find the forum before! Was stuck with the old url waiting for it to come back :P

                  I have read the new Modular Hacking Rules, it is amazing! Love them. I realized I am a crunchy person so I'll probably be playing with most of these optional modules when the situation is important, and perhaps without when the scenario doesn't mean it. You actually made everyone happy! Congratulations.

                  Found specifically the Log Out mechanic FANTASTIC. I was a lot complaining about how good hackers with free-rolls were almost immune to defense systems. Now at least if there is time pressure, fast log out will put some risk even for them.

                  I admit I am still a bit against a free hacking re-rolls (on network access and counter hacking) when taking the Hacker edge. It feels just too powerful for a novice edge that also gives two free programs. But by this time if that stays, there is probably a good reason.

                  I was going to share a story about (again) an issue with stealth characters. They hit some VIP that had medical bands, automatically the medical bands raised the alarm as he got unconscious. And now players complained again vs playing stealthy (even once we arranged TAPs can go invisible). I bet this issue will be resolved when TAPs are (partially) gone (and poor of the people who still want to use it, as nowadays people use [email protected] :P).

                  Is there any new take on medical bands and the medical equipment that synced with TAPs?

                  Best!
                  JV
                  Last edited by JeansenVaars; 08-19-2020, 10:31 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Hiya, sorry for any confusion and inconvenience about the forums =(

                    I'm glad you like the new rules!

                    I'm cutting free re-rolls from the rules, and re-writing the elements they affected. As for medical bands and other equipment, we're going back through the entire gear chapter and making modifications and, in some cases, re-writing the entries. You'll find that weapons are a bit more powerful. That helps balance against powerful characters like cyborgs.

                    I'm still dealing with the new tech, and dealing with the TAP.

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Originally posted by gunmetaldave View Post
                      Hiya, sorry for any confusion and inconvenience about the forums =(

                      I'm glad you like the new rules!

                      I'm cutting free re-rolls from the rules, and re-writing the elements they affected. As for medical bands and other equipment, we're going back through the entire gear chapter and making modifications and, in some cases, re-writing the entries. You'll find that weapons are a bit more powerful. That helps balance against powerful characters like cyborgs.

                      I'm still dealing with the new tech, and dealing with the TAP.
                      I am so excited about the changes! Seriously after playing many sessions, what you are mentioning feels totally in the right direction! (as my opinion)
                      Thanks for your hard work!! I seriously cant wait for the next revision of the book. Sounds like this magnitude of revision may delay a lot, I hope it is closer than what I feel

                      The changes in the weapons damage is super tricky! Because some times we experience exploding dice that goes really far. And also players or GMs tend to forget to aim or shoot at the head, so there's a double edge blade there because noobs feel Cyborgs are tough until they shoot at the head...

                      ps. last question: I have ordered the physical prints in DriveThruRPG, does it include the GM guide or is this going to be a separate order?

                      JV
                      Last edited by JeansenVaars; 08-19-2020, 03:30 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        The GM's Guide is a separate order. Sorry.

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